Any proof of your claims, like a citation that the White House denied a day for your Jesus but lives and breathes the evil of Mohamed? By the way, how do you know Franklin wasn't talking about Mohamed? Or, like he was in so many ways, facetious? If it's not in the Bible, why believe it? It seems like your God doesn't mind if you make stuff up.

Hi Steve: Just a friendly reminder of what our founding fathers included in the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;..."

"However, there are many (some elected) that I believe truly don't understand that the farther we distance our nation from GOD the deeper the quagmire gets."

Funny... When you look at actual numbers, the most secular countries in the world top all the quality of life categories like average health, life expectancy, literacy, poverty rates, infant mortality, etc... Is your god (or devil) tempting us into sin by giving us all these examples of happy, healthy, successful countries with high rates of atheism?

Comments like these are the reason our Country is in a deep quagmire.

Okay B, so Franklin was referring to Allah. Or Buddha. Still no verification about the denial of Christian praying, an activity which the President participates in, and the Islam boosting. It's not cool to make up stories about our elected leaders.

I'm also curious as to how why you think Franklin would believe in a God that controlled every movement of every creature all the time? Deists didn't believe God did anything beyond set the clock. You didn't make that up too, did you?

Sorry Steve, I'd like to help out, but once I saw lee and company, I decided it wasn't worth my time. No point in casting your pearls, if you know what I mean. You may need to find a more professional venue to write in where you'll get respectful comments and not have to worry about getting off topic. Not one comment has been on topic (well, one- thanks Marsha). But, I do agree with you. Our country is divided and there seems to be no exercise of accountability at the top. That's a guarantee of failure. Other nations have not escaped ruin and toppling and I don't think we are immune either unless we return authority to where it belongs.

Listen to Frederick Douglass, the famous nineteenth-century slave who taught himself to read and write, about how Christian America was: "Between the Christianity of this land, and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference ---- so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy, is of necessity to reject the other as bad, corrupt and wicked.... I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ; I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial, and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason, but the most deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity."

Let us not overlook how the Southern Baptist Convention was founded. Southern Baptists split from Northern Baptists over the issue of forbidding churches in slaveholding states from sending missionaries to spread the gospel. There is much more to the rest of the story, but I'll stop here.

That is not where we are now, so what's your point? Go back to the words of Frederick Douglass and you'll see the answer, "...and the Christianity of Christ, I recognize the widest possible difference ---- so wide, that to receive the one as good, pure, and holy,..." That is the One in whom Steve is referring to. No one can control the acts of those in whom claimed the name of the Lord but did not have His spirit. History is full of those people. You can argue, make ridiculous statements, present strawmen all you want, but if indeed God has the last say, you may find yourselves very humbled someday when an accountingis req.

Thanks for sharing John. It was christians that advocated and fought for the abolition of slavery. It 's always good to see the whole picture, not just chery pick the facts as many are in the habit of doing.
David, my point was that you fcan't look at just the people who are idiots even though they call themselves christians. Throughout history there is always a remnant who will rise up and make things right.

Tammy, I will meet you half-way and accept that there were some Christians that advocated and fought for the abolition of slavery. However, in 1845, the Southern Baptists probably comprised a large segment of Christians here in the south. It is a fact that the Southern Baptists were so obstinate about keeping their slaves that they split from the Northern Baptists and created their own congregation. I do recognize and appreciate that the Southern Baptists apologized for their poor civil rights record, including keeping slaves, at their June 1995 convention.

Below is a link to the June 1995 Southern Baptist Resolution on Racial Reconciliation. Please read the fourth whereas.

http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amresolution.asp?id=899

John Cook, my favorite subject in college was "critical thinking". That's why these comment sections cannot be called debates, because they're not. The red herring is one of the biggest ones used when talking politics. Of course, hypocrisy was a biggie too in the last election.
You'll note that Steve brought up a valid point about modern day slavery (like...uh...if you really want to talk about slavery- lol) but it'll sit there. You'll note that we elected a black president- twice, but yet we are quibbling over slavery of long ago and how it relates to christianity so as to debunk that God just might happen to play a part in the great scheme of things. Go figure.

To prove my (and John Cook's) point that these responses have no actual thought to them, but are meant to detract from a very well written piece, here's a little cricket to *chirp* the morning away! IN fact, I may go out ot see if I can hear any birds chirping in the trees, look up and smile that I'm not in here on the computer arguing aimlessly with mindless arguments. Have a great saturday ya'll!

John Cook wrote:
Besides, how many times have I been told since the impeachment hearings of 1999 that womanizing is irrelevant and has nothing to do with job performance? Yet, when convenient, here it is again being used to slam a good man. [grin]

Thus, my argument concerning the hypocrisy of the left. It's ok for Clinton and others, but when it's done by someone who invokes the name of God or leans to the right...ooooooohhhhhhhh......

"Mindless point"? My main point was how my fellow Christians, through the ages, have harmed the cause of Christ by their treatment of minorities. Some of you might be insouciant when it comes to that, but God and I take it seriously. A close Black friend of mine told me about his childhood church in Abbeville, South Carolina. The White worshippers were allowed inside the sanctuary. The Black worshippers had to worship outside the church building. I recall Tony Evans, the well-known Black pastor, being told by an Atlanta megachurch that he was not welcomed there. I recall hearing a visiting White pastor at my former church describe how a group of his White worshippers threatened to leave the church after that pastor baptized some black children. I recall reading about Thomas Jefferson's mistreatment of Sally Hemings. I find it interesting that Jesus' last miracle was healing Malchus's ear that had been cut off by the Apostle Peter. In other words, Jesus healed a wound that had been inflicted by a Christian upon a non-Christian. Those of us who call ourselves Christians need to stop inflicting wounds on non-Christians. That's my "mindless" point.

Sorry David, I was actually referring back to the first part of this thread when people came out in full attack mode. My apologies. Note that you're still in here and the rest have flown the coop. I should have been more specific, but bringing the things up that you do, have some merit in which I'd be ashamed to be associated with. I guess that 's why I have always looked for the signs of a true church where reconciliation has always played a big part. Having said that though, I believe the church has been working hard in the past decade to change that. Proof is the churches that have sprung up in defiance of that. I just prefer to be a part of the solution rather than continually condemning the ones who aren't complying to that mandate- it leads to bickering with no solutions in sight. God has a way of fixing that so I'd rather defer it to HIm. :)

Btw....David, I go to a church and am part of a ministry whre I am the minority and I hear those stories all the time from my black brothers and sisters. But those are from their childhood, and they will also say that they've seen much reconciliation in the body in recent years. The book of Acts is point on in what God prefers for His body. Jesus rebuked the church constantly. The NT Epistles tell us how to treat each other and how to treat those on the outside. We need to get about His kingdom and stop the (carnal) arguments that don't lead anywhere. However, I do believe that believers need to beware when getting their information from the media that loves to stir things up when it comes to this subject and others similar. The media tends to focus on what's wrong rather than what's right.

Now that my point has been proven that if you post something that has to do with God or decency, that the drive-bys will come and splatter their spiel for a while and leave, I'd like to leave with my conclusions on the matter. Your post was right on, and I'd think that many would be comforted that God is ultimately in control. Our freewill allows us to go just so far before God intervenes and shows us the better way to do it. I found a really good article that I want to share that might leave you with some food for thought. Here's to looking forward to your next awesome piece!

http://townhall.com/columnists/douggiles/2012/11/18/if_god_doesnt_judge_us_hell_have_to_apologize_to_sodom?fb_action_ids=3426258795039&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=column_bottom&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Tammy, again, we will have to agree to disagree. I have a BIG problem with your view and Doug Giles's view of God's sovereignty. Both of your views are faulty and show an exegesis of Scripture that is colored by your political perspectives. I love you as my sister in Christ and respect you, but we just see things differently. I'll be thrilled when we get to heaven where Christians won't be wasting precious time arguing about politics and social issues.:)